ExaltedGeico

Is Multi-clienting a positive thing?

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Read before replying: If you're interested in debating this with me, and want instant responses from me-- @ExaltedGeico on the DBOUR server. If you don't mind me possibly taking a day to respond, I suppose you could respond here. My objective is a honest and intellectual discussion. I don't want to hear nonsense that you can't prove. Make sure to only make claims that you could substantiate, otherwise you'll get hammered real quick. 

 

I had just made my forum account, and joined the DBOUR discord server when I found out that multi-clienting had a negative stigma. That it allegedly did harm to the game's community when said feature is enabled. So I decided to take matters to the game's discord server, see if I could convince the developers otherwise. I was met with good and bad news. The bad news being that they were adamant about their decision pertaining the fact that they won't ever allow multi-clienting. The good news being that they're working on a method to go around that, so it won't ruin the game's enjoyment for the community. I'm all for that, but my goal isn't to convince the developers that multi-clienting, yet. I was bored, and decided that a good of quelling that boredom is to make my first DBOUR thread and reignite discussion concerning whether or not multi-clienting being a good game feature. And do allow me to remind you that my current motive is not to convince the developers, it's to try to remove some/if not all of the negative stimga surrounding multi-client and it's viability within the game. 

 

One of the several reasons that I'm convinced multi-clienting is positive for the community is that it increases the game's life span. I know most of the people in this community probably won't like seeing bibles of text on a thread-- so I'll keep it short and simple. Multi-clienting enabled -> incentive to make a bunch of accounts -> costs time to gear/level up 

-> end result: time spent.

 

It also saves the developers time having to worry about reworking the classes in a manner that fits with their new "drop rate." But they don't seem to be worried about that. 

 

To which some attempted to argue against that by trying to suggest that multi-clienting would ruin the game's life span. For example botting, ruining the social aspect of the game, and so forth. Of course there were more, but they weren't articulated as nothing more than gibberish-- so I don't feel that they even began to compare to the first two. For one, botting's an inevitable issue that you're going to have to worry even with single-clienting, and i'd imagine they could very easily get around it via sandbox. So realistically speaking, single-client doesn't solve that. And two, multi-clienting never ruined the social aspect of the game. Plenty of people multi-cliented, just about ANYONE in DBOG who had any form of decent gear multi-cliented. Despite that, people still formed parties and clapped plethoras of CC/other dungeon runs. The LFP chat was quite lively back when DBOG had a decent population. The reason for that being the sheer difficulty of operating that many accounts while dealing with high difficulty dungeons, AND the tediousness of having to get plus 10-15 on FIVE accounts. So that's not much of a valid counter argument. But alas, that was pretty much the gist of an hour long conversation that I had with the good peeps of #ideas-and-suggestions on their discord server. 

 

Oh, and just to add on to the counter arguments people tried to make against me. They also tried to argue that since other RPGs don't allow multi-clienting, that it's inherently a negative feature. But unless you can prove that the reason why they don't allow it is because it has a negative effect on the community-- I don't want to hear it. And if you're against it just because it's not a popular feature among the plethoras of RPGs, then I don't wanna hear from you either. That'd be a strong appeal to tradition, a weak argument at best. 



Edited by ExaltedGeico

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There's nothing wrong with multi clienting. If the devs think not allowing multi clienting will stop the chinese botters all I can do is laugh. Legit players shouldn't be punished because of cheaters. 

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Guest Tempest

Hello,

 

For starters, using that failed project (as to why it's beneficial to run multiple clients) certainly is not an example. That project demonstrated why multi clienting was horrendous, and only proves the point further as to why running multiple clients have negative implications. As to what those implications are, please refer back to this post.

 

The official DBO servers (DBO KR, TW and HK) did not allow multi clienting. And that game was even more active than that project. If you want to see a comparison:

 

 

Official Servers (Did not allow multi-clienting):

  • Had a much more active community for a longer period of time. (Lasted from 2010 - 2013)
  • Were FAR more populated. (If you combine the population of all the servers, KR, TW and HK)
  • Had less botters (honestly I only saw maybe 1 - 2 players botting in papaya island back in the day, in which those players were banned)
  • Community was more friendly, and was not introverted.
  • In-game events that required multiple people were active every time. This includes Dojo war, Budokai and Scramble.

 

That failed DBO project (That allowed multi-clienting):

  • The server died within 6 months.
  • Was less populated than official servers.
  • Was swarming with botters, who would impact the economy.
  • Community was much more introverted to the point where players wouldn't bother even joining guilds, some would rather just play by themselves.
  • In-game events that required multiple players to participate were basically dead due to the population dying.

 

Anyone who has played the official servers of DBO will tell you that all the servers were in a much more stable, and healthier position.

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10 minutes ago, Tempest said:

Hello,

 

For starters, using that failed project (as to why it's beneficial to run multiple clients) certainly is not an example. That project demonstrated why multi clienting was horrendous, and only proves the point further as to why running multiple clients have negative implications. As to what those implications are, please refer back to this post.

 

The official DBO servers (DBO KR, TW and HK) did not allow multi clienting. And that game was even more active than that project. If you want to see a comparison:

 

 

Official Servers (Did not allow multi-clienting):

  • Had a much more active community for a longer period of time. (Lasted from 2010 - 2013)
  • Were FAR more populated. (If you combine the population of all the servers, KR, TW and HK)
  • Had less botters (honestly I only saw maybe 1 - 2 players botting in papaya island back in the day, in which those players were banned)
  • Community was more friendly, and was not introverted.
  • In-game events that required multiple people were active every time. This includes Dojo war, Budokai and Scramble.

 

That failed DBO project (That allowed multi-clienting):

  • The server died within 6 months.
  • Was less populated than official servers.
  • Was swarming with botters, who would impact the economy.
  • Community was much more introverted to the point where players wouldn't bother even joining guilds, some would rather just play by themselves.
  • In-game events that required multiple players to participate were basically dead due to the population dying.

 

Anyone who has played the official servers of DBO will tell you that all the servers were in a much more stable, and healthier position.

Are you really trying to say that the reason the private server had less players than the official server is because of multi clienting? The reason they had more players was because it was the official game. Not a cheap knock off.

 

DBOG was swarming with botters because Daneos didn't care about anything except for $$$. Allowing multi clienting makes it a little easier for people to bot but if those botters get banned there is no real problem. Not allowing multi clienting won't stop the botters. 

 

Saying the community was more friendly is a joke. The dbo community has always been pretty toxic. Retail/dbor/dbog. All the same. 

 

"that failed dbo project" didn't fail because of multi clienting and you know that. It failed because it was ran by a piece of shit that cared more about money than making  a decent game. 

 

 

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If you need to have more than 1 characters online in same time for obtain your goals then you suck.
If you can't deal with stuff in this game with 1 character then you suck.
As i know only randoms and losers without any achievements in real  dbo complain and cry about multi client coz they suck ppl like you had super comfortable gameplay with multi client, when youre full buffed even gear doesnt matter in grind.

 

I already pointed out absurds that follow multiclient, and even Downeos realize it, so maybe you will also.
https://forum.dboglobal.to/index.php?thread/36985-absurds-in-dbog/&postID=202350&highlight=absurds#post202350

 

Here will be no server with available multiclienting, so you can delete your account and forget about dbo.

This is where multiclient lead to:
image0.jpg?width=1092&height=615
unknown.png?width=622&height=614

unknown.png

 

Fake player base, fake statistics, fake guids.
You are my favorite type of human that believe that he's clever and intelligent, but in reality you tryna convince that water is not wet and fire wont hurt you, in short.
Fucking cabaret sadly without paid actor.



Edited by ZOLTY
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I agree with Zotly 100%. Multiclient shouldn't be allowed. It's negative for the Game since ppl stick to Solo play for a lot of things. It's a damn MMORPG. Play with other Players instead of playing Solo for Dungeons and crap. It's not that hard. It's just that some ppl wanna have only one main character and use multiclient to push it to the limits to have an easier time playing this easy game lmao. It's playable with only one Character. Been doing it on KR, TW and DBOG. Never had a problem.

 

Was only hard to find ppl for parties cuz most of the players used multiclient to spam Dungeons and other crap solo to keep whatever drop they are looking for. Or to lvl another Character of theirs real fast. You play MMORPGs with other Players, doing Dungeons with other Players. Not Solo with you and yourself lmao.

 

Remove Multiclient option. If ppl still try to use it with other ways and get caught, instant ban them. No discussion. Do Teamplay!

Also, if ppl wanna kep the game alive for a longer time, keep the game the way it was. A grinding game! Just a tip....

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1 hour ago, Tempest said:

Hello,

 

For starters, using that failed project (as to why it's beneficial to run multiple clients) certainly is not an example. That project demonstrated why multi clienting was horrendous, and only proves the point further as to why running multiple clients have negative implications. As to what those implications are, please refer back to this post

Official Servers (Did not allow multi-clienting):

  • Had a much more active community for a longer period of time. (Lasted from 2010 - 2013)
  • Were FAR more populated. (If you combine the population of all the servers, KR, TW and HK)
  • Had less botters (honestly I only saw maybe 1 - 2 players botting in papaya island back in the day, in which those players were banned)
  • Community was more friendly, and was not introverted.
  • In-game events that required multiple people were active every time. This includes Dojo war, Budokai and Scramble.

That doesn't at all refute what I'm saying. There's quite literally no issue with my using a failed project as the foundation for my evidence pertaining my claims concerning multi-clienting being a good feature. Your attempt to try to correlate multi-clienting to the failure of DBO is fallacious, at best-- until of course, you prove that the reason why they failed was because of multi-clienting, none of your arguments only any water in comparison to mine. To give you an analogy for why your logic isn't necessarily true; lets say said failed project actually accepted ideas from their community -> developers accepting suggestions from their fan base results in their game dying out. Although that isn't inherently false, it's not necessarily correct either. You'd have to cite the ideas that the developers accepted, and then prove why those ideas led to the game's downfall. But even then, that'd most likely lead you to a different conclusion than developers accepting feedback= games dying out. 

 

This is how you make an argument: claim -> reasoning/evidence. If you can't make a proper argument, you're not going to convince me-- I don't accept baseless claims.

1 hour ago, ZOLTY said:

If you need to have more than 1 characters online in same time for obtain your goals then you suck.

 

 

Why are you here? It's pretty blatant that anything that has the slightest relation to do with an intelligent conversation is too much for you to handle. I don't want you posting a reply to this thread ever again; leave, go somewhere else. The point of this thread is to be intellectually honest, your nonsense isn't valued here. 

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1 hour ago, Monkey D. Luffy said:

I agree with Zotly 100%. Multiclient shouldn't be allowed. It's negative for the Game since ppl stick to Solo play for a lot of things. I

Was only hard to find ppl for parties cuz most of the players used multiclient to spam Dungeons and other crap solo to keep whatever drop they are looking for. Or to lvl another Character of theirs real fast. You play MMORPGs with other Players, doing Dungeons with other Players. Not Solo with you and yourself lmao.

Also, if ppl wanna kep the game alive for a longer time, keep the game the way it was. A grinding game! Just a tip....

Keeping the game grindy and without the option to multi-client's counter intuitive. By eliminating the option of multi clienting you're essentially killing off any chance of farming efficiently for most players in the community, and to combat this the developers suggest to change the drop rate. Now you're trying to assert that by not only removing multi-client, but to keep the drop rate the same? I don't think people would enjoy that at all. People were already complaining about how the game was really grindy back in DBOG WITH multi-clienting, it'd naturally be worse without it.

 

Multi clienting isn't a negative for the same, for reasons that I posted in my first message in this thread. Multi-client barely affected the social aspect of forming parties in DBOG. The reason why you couldn't find players to do TMQs with was because of the lack of players. Everyone who needed to do TMQs had already finished, and the ones who needed it either quit-- or continued to play, struggling to find party members. 

 

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Guest Tempest
2 hours ago, ExaltedGeico said:

That doesn't at all refute what I'm saying. There's quite literally no issue with my using a failed project as the foundation for my evidence pertaining my claims concerning multi-clienting being a good feature. Your attempt to try to correlate multi-clienting to the failure of DBO is fallacious, at best-- until of course, you prove that the reason why they failed was because of multi-clienting, none of your arguments only any water in comparison to mine. To give you an analogy for why your logic isn't necessarily true; lets say said failed project actually accepted ideas from their community -> developers accepting suggestions from their fan base results in their game dying out. Although that isn't inherently false, it's not necessarily correct either. You'd have to cite the ideas that the developers accepted, and then prove why those ideas led to the game's downfall. But even then, that'd most likely lead you to a different conclusion than developers accepting feedback= games dying out. 

 

This is how you make an argument: claim -> reasoning/evidence. If you can't make a proper argument, you're not going to convince me-- I don't accept baseless claims. 

Why are you here? It's pretty blatant that anything that has the slightest relation to do with an intelligent conversation is too much for you to handle. I don't want you posting a reply to this thread ever again; leave, go somewhere else. The point of this thread is to be intellectually honest, your nonsense isn't valued here. 

 

You've failed to see my point. That project and how it turned out is enough evidence as to why multi clienting is a bad thing.

 

The only person who has baseless claims here is you, and you're immature when it comes to debating as you basically do not want to accept any answer someone gives you:

 

5 hours ago, ExaltedGeico said:

Oh, and just to add on to the counter arguments people tried to make against me. They also tried to argue that since other RPGs don't allow multi-clienting, that it's inherently a negative feature. But unless you can prove that the reason why they don't allow it is because it has a negative effect on the community-- I don't want to hear it. And if you're against it just because it's not a popular feature among the plethoras of RPGs, then I don't wanna hear from you either. That'd be a strong appeal to tradition, a weak argument at best. 

 

Up above I gave you your "claim -> reasoning/evidence."

 

You shouldn't have bothered to even make this thread, as you refuse to even accept/acknowledge what people were trying to tell you on discord. You're maturity level is what's water here, and it's clear you can't handle any opinion that's different from yours. You've had a discussion on discord with countless people, read past threads and STILL can't accept or bother to see why we are against multi-clienting.

 

Also keep in mind -  I could lock this thread as it's certainly a waste of time trying to bother repeating myself to some mere child who seemingly joined the debate team at school and now all of a sudden thinks he is qualified to be an attorney. The decision has already been set by the team, nothing you can say will change our mind and there are many people who do not want multi-clienting. Keep that in mind before you make your next post.

 

4 hours ago, Steven said:

Are you really trying to say that the reason the private server had less players than the official server is because of multi clienting? The reason they had more players was because it was the official game. Not a cheap knock off.

DBOG was swarming with botters because Daneos didn't care about anything except for $$$. Allowing multi clienting makes it a little easier for people to bot but if those botters get banned there is no real problem. Not allowing multi clienting won't stop the botters.

Saying the community was more friendly is a joke. The dbo community has always been pretty toxic. Retail/dbor/dbog. All the same.

"that failed dbo project" didn't fail because of multi clienting and you know that. It failed because it was ran by a piece of shit that cared more about money than making  a decent game.  

 

No, I'm trying to say that multi-clienting is one of many factors that helped kill off that project/playerbase. Of course, there are many other factors, in which some you mentioned in your post. Players being allowed to run 15 clients at a time certainly is one of many factors why that server failed. Look at Zolty's post, there were people who would basically try to fake their own guilds by having 15 active clients at a time.

 

The only reason why I bring up the official servers (being KR/TW/HK) was you never once saw this. And there wasn't a big botting problem back in the day either.

 

 

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8 hours ago, ExaltedGeico said:

Keeping the game grindy and without the option to multi-client's counter intuitive. By eliminating the option of multi clienting you're essentially killing off any chance of farming efficiently for most players in the community, and to combat this the developers suggest to change the drop rate. Now you're trying to assert that by not only removing multi-client, but to keep the drop rate the same? I don't think people would enjoy that at all. People were already complaining about how the game was really grindy back in DBOG WITH multi-clienting, it'd naturally be worse without it.

 

Multi clienting isn't a negative for the same, for reasons that I posted in my first message in this thread. Multi-client barely affected the social aspect of forming parties in DBOG. The reason why you couldn't find players to do TMQs with was because of the lack of players. Everyone who needed to do TMQs had already finished, and the ones who needed it either quit-- or continued to play, struggling to find party members. 

 

I'm sorry man but i have to disagree on this one.

 

If you wanna farm efficiently without Multiclient, simply create a Character for PvE to do some farming. And THIS is the problem ppl have. They don't want to do that. They wanna own one Main Character, mostly a Fighter, use Multiclient to have a Buffer following their fighter in order to play "efficiently". Create a PvE Character first. Max lvl it and farm to get some zeni. Then create another Character, most likely for PvP, and use the money from PvE Character to Equip PvP Character. Easiest sh*t to do. Been doing exactly that since i started DBO: Never had any issues. The drop rate of old DBO was 100% fine. Ofc it's all about luck but once you dropped something nice, you were able to do earn a good amount of Zeni. Unlike DBOG, where Daneos made sure dropping max. effect stat Drops is impossible (forcing ppl to Box their way through the game), in old DBO you were able to drop that stuff. Meant instant wealth back then. People who complain about drop rate in a grinding game shouldn't play a grinding game then. Cuz that's how grinding games work...

 

Well the findig Party thing is kinda true when you put it like that. Ofc it makes sense too. But Multiclient is still to blame on that one. People liked using Multiclient for TMQ and UDs rather than forming a party with other players. Was more "efficient" to them. Could keep all drops to yourself and with your max. lvl Character you were able to lvl up your alt chaarcter easy af by simply spamming the TMQ/UD by yourself. I mean why make a Party when i can play with me,myself and i to keep all the drops i get + it's faster to lvl up my alt character...

 

Multiclient has got to go. At least at the start of this Project. Maybe some time later, when we can clearly see the lack of players, maybe then they could allow it. But only 1x. So your main and one alt character. Nothing more! 

 

Also we should use DBOG as an example for a lot of suggestions to come on this Forum. That Project is the best example on what not to do xD

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7 hours ago, Tempest said:

 

You've failed to see my point. That project and how it turned out is enough evidence as to why multi clienting is a bad thing.

The only person who has baseless claims here is you, and you're immature when it comes to debating as you basically do not want to accept any answer someone gives you:

Up above I gave you your "claim -> reasoning/evidence."

 

You shouldn't have bothered to even make this thread, as you refuse to even accept/acknowledge what people were trying to tell you on discord. You're maturity level is what's water here, and it's clear you can't handle any opinion that's different from yours. You've had a discussion on discord with countless people, read past threads and STILL can't accept or bother to see why we are against multi-clienting.

 

Also keep in mind -  I could lock this thread as it's certainly a waste of time trying to bother repeating myself to some mere child who seemingly joined the debate team at school and now all of a sudden thinks he is qualified to be an attorney. The decision has already been set by the team, nothing you can say will change our mind and there are many people who do not want multi-clienting. Keep that in mind before you make your next post.

No, the way that the project turned out is most certainly not due to multi-clienting as you seem to be claiming-- until you substantiate your argumentation, and actually back that up. Simply making the assertion that "That project and how it turned out is enough evidence as to why multi clienting is a bad thing" is hardly an argument. It's too vague an answer for me to response to, and is thus an incomplete comparison; which is a logical fallacy, mind you. If you're going to argue that the result of DBOG is why multi-clienting is bad, I'm going to need you to articulate how/what manner in which DBOG went downhill directly correlates to mutli-clienting. Otherwise, you're not making a connection between DBOG and mutli-clienting, you'd just be throwing around random terms, that as far you've substantiated them, mean nothing. 

 

Yes, I've talked to countless people on Discord, and no it's not a matter of whether or not I accept their argument, or understand-- I understand their arguments completely, most of their argumentation was either based off of anecdotal evidence, or incomplete evidence. Some argued that because they couldn't find party members to do TMQ with, therefore mutli-clienting is bad-- without taking into consideration that the population of the game might be why they can't find any party members. Some asserted that DBOG was dead, and they allowed multi-clienting-- therefore mutli-clienting is bad, without extrapolating upon why mutli-clienting is related to DBOG's downfall. That's why I won't accept any of their arguments, they can't completely back up their claims with concrete evidence. I've already fully comprehended their points, and I still find my argument to be stronger. How I'm the one who's unable to accept another's argument,  when I've continuously broke down the opposite side's arguments and properly retorted to them, is once again, beyond me. 

 

I'm not sure why you're bringing up my maturity as if it were in response to something that I directed at you. It should've been completely obvious that was in response to Zolty being a problem child just like he was back in DBOG's forums. I wanted an intellectually honest conversation, and he hopped on with his edgy bull crap-- I didn't want that, so I told him to leave. There's literally nothing that I've said in any of my messages that'd even begin to hint at immaturity. I have a thought that I want to convey, and so I said it straight forwardly, that's all there is to it. I articulate what I want to say with literally no difficulty, how me wanting children like Zolty to leave makes me immature is beyond me. Even if I were just a kid who joined my school's "debate team," it's pretty clear that I'm more qualified to formulate an argument than most people here-- so my being in a "debate team" would've been a positive thing, if anything. And if you knew that was in response to Zolty, then good for I guess-- I've got nothing else to tell you really, he swung at me, so I swung back. 

 

I don't even know you bother to tell me that what I'm saying isn't going to change the minds of the developer's team. I thought I made it pretty clear in my first response that it was no longer my objective. 



Edited by ExaltedGeico

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Was I one of the few who was fine with farming without a buffer while playing as a Swordsman? No seriously I don't see the big outcry with losing multi-client when most (if not all) classes can get by with farming by themselves.

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10 minutes ago, Monkey D. Luffy said:

I'm sorry man but i have to disagree on this one.

If you wanna farm efficiently without Multiclient, simply create a Character for PvE to do some farming. And THIS is the problem ppl have. They don't want to do that. They wanna own one Main Character, mostly a Fighter, use Multiclient to have a Buffer following their fighter in order to play "efficiently". Create a PvE Character first. Max lvl it and farm to get some zeni. Then create another Character, most likely for PvP, and use the money from PvE Character to Equip PvP Character. Easiest sh*t to do. Been doing exactly that since i started DBO: Never had any issues. The drop rate of old DBO was 100% fine. Ofc it's all about luck but once you dropped something nice, you were able to do earn a good amount of Zeni. Unlike DBOG, where Daneos made sure dropping max. effect stat Drops is impossible (forcing ppl to Box their way through the game), in old DBO you were able to drop that stuff. Meant instant wealth back then. People who complain about drop rate in a grinding game shouldn't play a grinding game then. Cuz that's how grinding games work...

Well the findig Party thing is kinda true when you put it like that. Ofc it makes sense too. But Multiclient is still to blame on that one. People liked using Multiclient for TMQ and UDs rather than forming a party with other players. Was more "efficient" to them. Could keep all drops to yourself and with your max. lvl Character you were able to lvl up your alt chaarcter easy af by simply spamming the TMQ/UD by yourself. I mean why make a Party when i can play with me,myself and i to keep all the drops i get + it's faster to lvl up my alt character...

Also we should use DBOG as an example for a lot of suggestions to come on this Forum. That Project is the best example on what not to do xD

Alright, fair enough. At the very least you're capable of making concessions on accepting the other side's arguments. Glad to see that are some who can see where I'm from, despite disagreeing with me. 

 

I can definitely see how people forming a party with themselves can be troublesome for low end dungeons like TMQs, since they're easy to do, and sure-- multi-client could/probably contributed to the lack of players willing to form parties with each other in order to maximize their profits. But realistically speaking, it's probably mostly due to the low population of DBOG. Because during the first year of OB, or so, LFP chat was quite lively-- filled with players who're willing to form parties with you and spam dungeons continuously for hours on end. But as things went downhill for DBOG, people either quit out of boredom, or disappointment-- sometimes both. And so due to a lack of a player population, people couldn't find others trying to form parties with them. 

 

Well, DBOG was bad-- but not all of their decisions were inherently bad. I thought that they made a lot of cool additions to the game, the allowed use of mutli-client(which unfortunately is now not allowed, so much for not using them as an example of what not to do, right?), dogi balls in CC, increased difficulty of CC to deal with the amount of highly geared player spamming it, dogi capsules in TMQs, increased drop rate for stones, and so forth. But that's not to say they didn't make a lot of poor decisions, they most certainly did, but mixed in with those poor decisions-- they made positive ones. 

7 minutes ago, BlazingBarrager said:

Was I one of the few who was fine with farming without a buffer while playing as a Swordsman? No seriously I don't see the big outcry with losing multi-client when most (if not all) classes can get by with farming by themselves.

It's not a matter of being able to farm by yourself, as much as it is a matter of farming as efficiently as possible by yourself-- without needing plus 15, for example, to survive a group of mobs. 

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Just now, ExaltedGeico said:

It's not a matter of being able to farm by yourself, as much as it is a matter of farming as efficiently as possible by yourself-- without needing plus 15, for example, to survive a group of mobs. 

I didn't have +15 and I still did fine farming without a buffer.

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Just now, BlazingBarrager said:

I didn't have +15 and I still did fine farming without a buffer.

I don't really understand what "fine farming" is, to really give you a direct response-- it's vague. But were you able to continuously farm places like the amusement park, hotel, or really any massively populated area, without having to worry about dying? I'm talking like 12-15+ mobs per grab, and 1-2 shotting the entire horde. 

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Just now, ExaltedGeico said:

I don't really understand what "fine farming" is, to really give you a direct response-- it's vague. But were you able to continuously farm places like the amusement park, hotel, or really any massively populated area, without having to worry about dying? I'm talking like 12-15+ mobs per grab, and 1-2 shotting the entire horde. 

Yeah. It's all about managing your resources and not taking in too many mobs.

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48 minutes ago, ExaltedGeico said:

I don't really understand what "fine farming" is, to really give you a direct response-- it's vague. But were you able to continuously farm places like the amusement park, hotel, or really any massively populated area, without having to worry about dying? I'm talking like 12-15+ mobs per grab, and 1-2 shotting the entire horde. 

Well, this is the reason why ppl wanna use Multiclient xD

Playing a Class that is not designed for doing exactly what you described. For that purpose, other classes exist. A Fighter/SM  is not designed to fight 12-15+ mobs at once. Sure, Fighter have dodge rate that helps them but ultimately, it's not really the field where they shine. Instead, they should just 1on1 on areas that are not as  crowded the park or hotel.

At those crowded spots, you'll usually see PvE Characters farm. When i was Farming with my SM; i just did 1on1 killing. Now one could say it's annoying and takes time, but not really. Fighters and SM do dope dmg so they can take down mobs very fast. So even as a SM, i had no trouble farming in KR/TW at all. Never used multiclient cuz it's not needed. Every class can Farm. It's just some are not good at doing it like a DW/SK or whatever you know? Simply classes that are capable of facing like 15 mobs...

 

And hat's why ppl wanna keep Multiclient. A dumb reason to me tbh. No disrespect. Just create a PvE Character first! Make money and then create a PvP Character. Or if you start with PvP, learn how to farm 1on1. No need to tank mobs like a SK/DW. 1on1 kill them fast. Easy.

 

Also about DBOG, i know they did some stuff right too. Didn't mean it like they are a complete failure. It's just like what you said above. They did some dope decisions that made the game better. And also dumb decisions xD. We'll see stuff like that on here too, but maybe not as hard as in DBOG. I'd actually like to have some of DBOG things on here, like getting dogi balls from CCBD etc...

 

But Multiclient, ultimately, is a bad thing for a MMORPG. Especially for a game like DBO which is an easy game in general since it's a grinding game. With multiclient ppl rush multiple Characterto max. real fast and end up being bored. Gotta slow that process down a bit. And removing Multiclient will help in doing so. 

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Every time I see @Tempest talk, it always includes lots of hatred towards the last project where he was a team member. Chill out catnip seeker, whatever they did to hurt you, forget it. Less emotions, more thinking. 

 

Now about multi client. All of you who want it either have no idea what mmos are or you're just simple lazy losers who can't even handle a bloody old game. How is it okay to make fake "yous" and play all by yourself? This is literally the top 1 thing that has no place in mmos. What's next? Allowing 50 free bots per account to auto farm? Sure thing.

 

Go play offline games geniuses.

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Guest atidote

Keep this friendly without trash talking.

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Multi-clienting was always a loose thread, but in retail, with the advent of the speed meta , it didn't matter what class farmed, fighters just used thunder and everything died in the local area, swordsman started going dodge/energy builds/or straight Crit, Majin had Kid Buu aoe/auto, and really the only actual uses for multi-client on retail at that point was having a buff-bot, dragon-ball farming, and for those adventurous few, filling out a full CCBD party, other than those key points, It wasn't used, there was no point outside those areas.
 

Also on Retail we were limited to like 2 slots? so if you wanted to even make one each class, you would have had to have a second or third or fourth account, which made it prime for sandboxie.

 

Anyhow end of the day, it's not just about just removing the ability to multi-client, it's covering the reasons why you want to multi-client.

Such as;

  • Making Dragon Ball Hunts more Interactive
  • Having more character slots (want to make 11 fighters? why not!)
  • allowing the shuffle of more stuff between characters
    • doing away with BoP, only BoE(unbinding station still functioning the same), and BoA (besides quest items, and other non-dynamic items which will remain BoC)
    • purchasable warehouses/banks that are account based
  • buffing requires players, so making support classes worth playing is a big tackle.

These are only my suggestions, and merely my own personal views on how to tackle the problem, because it's definitely an issue, you shouldn't encourage this kind of behaviour, as it was also originally I believe against ToS to use third party software to run multiple clients, aswell as owning multiple accounts, but as they couldn't enforce it was moot. 

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Most of things you covered there Luke.

Think is really that 4th option, that is really main reason for multi client.

 

Buff you character and make it divine for korin platform and other dungeons soo to give players 2nd option is to add food buffs.

Now in order to save Buffer classes from being discarded, this food buffs needs to be disabled in Ranked, Budokai, CCBD and BID's.

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Forget the food buffs Iceman. xD

Will just make sure there will be less Ultimate Majins around since ppl will depend on your Food Buff thing. You gonna steal the jobs of Ultimate Majins dude!

 

Spoiler

 

 

Make sure Multiclient is not allowed and force ppl into Teamplay. And to do so, since Luke mentioned speed meta, cap atk speed so low it ain't worth it anymore. Turn Speed Buff of Poko and Karma into self buff so together with Fighters they are the only ones to gain more speed. Ofc a speed cap will prevent them to be too OP. By doing so, all other classes will be able to join Parties for everything. But that will work only in combination of reworking those hard to take down mobs (ULtra/Hero) inside TMQ/Dungeons. Make classes use skills more! The game worked perfectly fine without this damn speed crap.



Edited by Monkey D. Luffy
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13 hours ago, Monkey D. Luffy said:

Forget the food buffs Iceman. xD

Will just make sure there will be less Ultimate Majins around since ppl will depend on your Food Buff thing. You gonna steal the jobs of Ultimate Majins dude!

 

No one will steal any job from ultimate or any other buffer, just you will have chance to explore stuffs on your own without need to beg or use sandbox to have your own buffer, since I assure you people will use that, even I did before.

 

With food buffs that exist in most of MMO's, you will get option to not really on stuffs you want to do solo or with 1 of your friend, for fun or for crafting / food buff materials. 

 

18 hours ago, Iceman said:

Most of things you covered there Luke.

Think is really that 4th option, that is really main reason for multi client.

 

Buff you character and make it divine for korin platform and other dungeons soo to give players 2nd option is to add food buffs.

Now in order to save Buffer classes from being discarded, this food buffs needs to be disabled in Ranked, Budokai, CCBD and BID's.

 

One more, I am sure you didn't even read my post, you lazy bastard, there are still PVE, PVP activity that will seek for ultimates.

One more, you want to tell me that ultimates won't benefit from this too?

Imagine to see Ultimate full buffed, he will be epic.

 

One more, Food Craft ( Cooking) should be based on crafting as armor, this way, looking for recipes and materials will enrich the game with new content.

 

PS: Regarding speed, attack speed needs to be removed from gear entirely and self buffs of Karma, Poko and Fighter needs to be raised to achieve attack speed good enough to be useful for them and to be indeed only speed classes in - game. 



Edited by Iceman

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Guest Tempest
On 5/10/2019 at 8:53 PM, ExaltedGeico said:

No, the way that the project turned out is most certainly not due to multi-clienting as you seem to be claiming-- until you substantiate your argumentation, and actually back that up. Simply making the assertion that "That project and how it turned out is enough evidence as to why multi clienting is a bad thing" is hardly an argument. It's too vague an answer for me to response to, and is thus an incomplete comparison; which is a logical fallacy, mind you. If you're going to argue that the result of DBOG is why multi-clienting is bad, I'm going to need you to articulate how/what manner in which DBOG went downhill directly correlates to mutli-clienting. Otherwise, you're not making a connection between DBOG and mutli-clienting, you'd just be throwing around random terms, that as far you've substantiated them, mean nothing.  

 

Yes, I've talked to countless people on Discord, and no it's not a matter of whether or not I accept their argument, or understand-- I understand their arguments completely, most of their argumentation was either based off of anecdotal evidence, or incomplete evidence. Some argued that because they couldn't find party members to do TMQ with, therefore mutli-clienting is bad-- without taking into consideration that the population of the game might be why they can't find any party members. Some asserted that DBOG was dead, and they allowed multi-clienting-- therefore mutli-clienting is bad, without extrapolating upon why mutli-clienting is related to DBOG's downfall. That's why I won't accept any of their arguments, they can't completely back up their claims with concrete evidence. I've already fully comprehended their points, and I still find my argument to be stronger. How I'm the one who's unable to accept another's argument,  when I've continuously broke down the opposite side's arguments and properly retorted to them, is once again, beyond me. 

 

I'm not sure why you're bringing up my maturity as if it were in response to something that I directed at you. It should've been completely obvious that was in response to Zolty being a problem child just like he was back in DBOG's forums. I wanted an intellectually honest conversation, and he hopped on with his edgy bull crap-- I didn't want that, so I told him to leave. There's literally nothing that I've said in any of my messages that'd even begin to hint at immaturity. I have a thought that I want to convey, and so I said it straight forwardly, that's all there is to it. I articulate what I want to say with literally no difficulty, how me wanting children like Zolty to leave makes me immature is beyond me. Even if I were just a kid who joined my school's "debate team," it's pretty clear that I'm more qualified to formulate an argument than most people here-- so my being in a "debate team" would've been a positive thing, if anything. And if you knew that was in response to Zolty, then good for I guess-- I've got nothing else to tell you really, he swung at me, so I swung back. 

 

I don't even know you bother to tell me that what I'm saying isn't going to change the minds of the developer's team. I thought I made it pretty clear in my first response that it was no longer my objective. 

 

The tldr; (in simple terms) of your post is that you've failed to connect the dots together and you cannot see how multi-clienting impacts a server. You need someone to directly spell it out and spoon feed you the answer instead of coming to a conclusion yourself, and that you lack common sense.

 

As I've said previously, allowing players to multi-client is directly assisting those players who choose to use botting software.

 

I think people who are for multi-clienting have extreme difficulty on interpreting what the issue is exactly.

 

The issue here isn't exactly players who want to multi-client on a low level alt to help them dragon ball hunt. The issue also isn't with players wanting to have an alternate character to buff themselves/help them farm (although some people might disagree this has negative implications which I've mentioned before).

 

The MAIN issue here is players who want to run more than just a few alts. We are directly referring to those players like in the image zolty posted, and also those players who bot. As I've said previously, there are MANY players who choose to cheat unfortunately. One of the defenses against these type of players, is to limit clients, like how the original DBO did.

 

Why is players who run third party software to cheat (botters) bad and how does multi-clienting play a part?

  • Botting is a form of cheating. It's a player using illegal software to gain an unfair advantage in order to obtain items, game currency and EXP over those who choose to genuinely farm/grind.
  • Now imagine a player who chooses to bot, but also do this on MULTIPLE clients. This increases the DBOUR teams work exponentially, (more specifically GM's/Admins).
  • Not only will we have to ban the players, but we have to also track down all of the logs in the data base in where the items/zeni could have ended up. This is more time consuming than you realise. And the more accounts that botters can use, the more of a mess we have to clean up. It creates a bigger and more tangled spiders web that we honestly don't want to sort through.

 

Do you honestly need me to keep on spelling out for you how detrimental players who use third party software (botters) are to a private server, and how allowing players to run multiple clients is actually assisting them? Please go off and conduct your own research on why botters area bad for a MMO and especially private servers/emulators. I'm no longer going to spell it out for you.

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23 minutes ago, Tempest said:

Do you honestly need me to keep on spelling out for you how detrimental players who use third party software (botters) are to a private server, and how allowing players to run multiple clients is actually assisting them? Please go off and conduct your own research on why botters area bad for a MMO and especially private servers/emulators. I'm no longer going to spell it out for you.

Do I honestly need you to spell out your arguments? No, not really. It's more of a debate tactic where you get your opponent to actually state their argument, instead of imply it-- that way if they backtrack and change their argument, because the opposing side is making valid points against them, it'd be the same as them conceding that the opposite side is right. Then there's the possibility that I might come up with a better argument for your side, then you would have if you had just articulated it yourself. I also don't want to ASSUME your argument, because over the countless debates that I've had with people, misunderstandings can drag on a conversation to be unnecessarily long. 

 

Now that we're past that~ Sure, I definitely see where you're coming from with your whole multi-clienting -> more botting. But now that we've hit the part of the conversation where we have to evaluate botting's effect on DBO. And just to clarify, I've got a pretty decent understanding for why botting is bad-- but for the sake of continuing the conversation, i'm going to try to refute that by bringing up factors that botters add to the game, and how that can benefit the player base; I'm playing devil's advocate at this point. 

 

Initially in POB when players botted the game, they increased the amount of zeni that existed in the economy-- causing the prices to sky rocket, making it difficult for new players to buy stones and so forth. But that economy buff is a double edged sword, it has it's negatives, but it definitely has it's pros. Some free 2 players decided to use that to their advantage, they were one of the first to start crafting back in PoB-- since crafted items were in high demand back then, a lot of players who owned an excessive amount of zeni would throw their money at them to buy their gear-- which in turn gave them MORE zeni to craft more items, making crafted items pretty common near the end of PoB. End result: Players benefitted from the economy buff because they could make as many crafted items as they wanted, which increased the amount of crafted items circulating the markets. Because they had the opportunity to craft these items, the idea that you could craft powerful items through crafting become common-- mind you, most players at the time back in OG DBO, and half of PoB's life span had NO IDEA how to craft/why it was relevant. 

 

I'd say the worst that came out of the botters in PoB, was the excessive amount of plus 15 gears-- but that wasn't even a matter of botting, that was an issue that stemmed from a duplication bug, if I recall correctly(correct me if I'm wrong). Outside of the whole crafting revolution that occurred in PoB, whenever players farmed for hours on end-- after the stone drop rate amp, mind you-- players were actually rewarded for their efforts. You'd get a couple of advanced stones and sell them for 100 million each or so-- and I remember that making farming, back in the day, very satisfying for my friends and I. Although the prices for the items in high demand skyrocketed, the prices for farmable items like stones did as well-- so if you knew how to farm, you could get almost anything you wanted. Kid clocks, dogis, good crafted armor, accessories, and possibly even plus 15 if you farm long enough. 

 

Is botting cheating? Definitely, there's nothing to retort to there. But it's not like the community can't adapt to the botting and make use of it to where those botters work for them. Botting has had it's pros and cons in PoB-- and if that's your main argument for why multi-clienting is bad, if you combine all the factors that make multi-clienting good, in additions to the pros that botting has versus the cons that botting has ~ I think it's pretty obvious that the side of multi-clienting being good would outweigh the opposing side single-client side. 

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