Dohko

Dark Warrior Discussion

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Opening up a thread about the dark warrior to not change anymore the subject on @Scrancher¬†topic ūüėā

In response to his suggestion:
( click here to read )

Very nice suggestion. But what if instead of Dragon Righteousness have an phy atk additional, why not add Strength with the same amount as Energy to Dragon Spirit? Or better yet, have this both suggestions added hehe

I agree with you about the Whirlwind and Cyclone and adding a kd ability to Cyclone would be cool. Or what if the Hit Rate Decrease from the skill could be replaced with Paralysis (or Stun)? It would fit better for the Cyclone skill. 

Reinvent that useless skill (Dragon's Pledge) It's a nice idea. To be honest, I have never used that skill. I think it could be a buff like Talon's Defense, but add Physical and Energy Attack. 
It would increase Physical and Energy Attack by 162 (at lv 1), at lv 5 would increase 685. The same as Talon's Defense. Obs: Values could be discussed.

Do you guys agree, do you not? Let's discuss¬†ūüėĀ
 

By the way, do not demand anything about class balance to Devs. They will do it in time. This is just a discuss thread how the class could be improved. Also, feel free to create a discussion from another class too.

 

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Very nice initiative, to open up this Dark Warrior balancing thread, Dohko! ūüėĄūüĎć

I fully agree and understand, that these are just community ideas, suggestions, general conversing and discussions about the Dark Warrior class, balancing and such, and nothing official or factual is guaranteed, as the balancing team will do that in time as you said. Just general feedback from us that play/played the class, or anyone that wants to join the discussions, suggestings, etc!

That could work too, but as you know, the Energy stat doesn't give any energy attack points, but rather just an EP boost and EP recovery boost (unless DBONU will change that formular)¬†ūüôā¬†But in the same line as your additional suggestion, having Strength added to the Dark Warrior's passive Soul buff skill, would be ideal. That way, the two buffs (active & passive) would both have physical and energy attack buffs, as to not keep the DW in the energy-class type.

As @Srdjan commented on in my former thread, about his disagreement about my suggestion that DW's should get the Violent Slice ability off the SK's (which I still think DW should get), your idea about a paralysis or stun effect on Cyclone, would actually be all that we need, and I fully agree on that one!
That way, Whirlwind for example could get higher damage, better AoE range¬†and the KD ability, and the Cyclone could get increased damage, even better AoE range AND a similar stun effect as the SK's Violent Slice ability, albeit a physical short-range version. I think that could work, both for the DW as an independent class, but also to mend the rather large gap between SK's and DW's¬†ūüôā

Yes, I think we are many that never used that skill, haha. For it to become an actual offensive (both physical and energy) buff, is a very good idea you have. I think that the duration should be higher than 30 seconds though, but as to durations and such, that's a very tricky ordeal to me, to not make it suddenly become OP! How about a 1 min duration, with the amount of physical and energy attack points you mentioned?


As Srdjan also mentioned in the other thread (and which you pointed out that DBOG already has made), the EP passive skill would be ideal to give Focus instead, which I fully agree on. As you pointed out (again), DBOG did it, and be that as it may, it's still a great buff for the DW, which really lacks the hit rate!

Guys, how do you find the two buffs: Draconic Resistance and Draconic Defense? Personally, I find them waste of SP's, and never used them myself, although I tested them many years ago, and wasn't impressed in the slightest. With the whole idea of next-to-none RNG in DBONU here (the idea of which I LOVE), what would work instead of those two? Complete rework, buffs to them, or replacements?
I was thinking, seeing as they are additional active buffs, how about if one of them gave both success rate and resistance rate (but quite a high amount), and the other gave something like 10% LP recovery at max skill level? They are still self-cast buffs, and I think something major needs to be done with them, as they lean towards PvP, but in turn forces you to have overall worse skills to use, due to the many points you can put in both these two buffs. This way, you have another choice, to become even more tanky/defensive, or to scrap those two buffs (as it is), and put points in more offensive skills.

I've also been thinking about, how if at lvl 50, 60, 70 etc., if certain skills which cap on lower character levels, could get a new skill level you could put an SP in at certain levels, that would make them viable at higher levels? This suggestion could apply to all the classes in the game, as to renew and revive skills that are good for lower character levels, but just isn't worth it at higher character level caps.

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A few suggestions I would like to address,

image.png

First of all, I am not sure why TW murdered Disastrous Blow, I think 50% range decrease maybe a bit much but I don't think dropping it down to 10% instead was a good idea.

I would personally start it at 30% and level 2 should be around 40% (I believe it didn't have more than 2 SP).

Attack Speed should drop to 20% for 1/2 (instead of 26%) and should become 30% for 2/2.

 

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I really dislike this skill, so do you two it seems, but I disagree on how to change it. 

In a 5v5, a party is very hard to kill when there is a DW and an Ultimate present, there is too much tankiness (for lack of a better word) going on in one side. Buffing and small heals can be very annoying to deal with. That being said, I think having it be an AoE Grab would be a generally bad idea that will cause nasty setups. 

My suggestion makes it pretty useful the way I see it. Increase your Hit rate by a % and Decreases your own Dodge Rate by a 5.

Hit rate: 1/5 = +5%                 2/5 = +8%                 3/5 = +12%                 4/5 = +15%                 5/5 = +25%

Dodge rate: 1/5 = -5%                 2/5 = -8%                 3/5 = -12%                 4/5 = -16%                 5/5 = -20%

Duration is 10 minutes instead of 1 minute. Same Cooldown, Same EP Usage.

Reasoning behind this is because I was the one to consistently nag at the DBOG team back when I was a Mod about a change to the Passive "EP Boost" from EP to FOC.

The change was later implemented. If we do the same, we'll be trying to copy them (even if the idea was originally mine, the community will see it negatively).

So instead of doing that, make this skill have that effect!

The reason for decrease in Dodge rate is simply because there is no use for it to begin with (and I personally think Dodge and Hit rate should work differently) Otherwise, I would keep it with just increasing hit rate.

 

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A simple increase in Damage and effective range will help this skill go long ways. Change to 10m Radius instead of 8m. 

Later, when % Damage is discussed more closely, we will have a better idea of where this skill should be in terms of damage output.

 

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Adding a KD effect to this skill at level 2 will help DW very well in PvP. That also means this skill's cooldown needs to be increased.

 

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I am heavily against adding a KD effect to this skill because I think giving an AoE move a KD effect generally gives bad results. I am also against giving this skill any sort of CC effect. However, a change to it will be decrease opponent's Dodge Rate.

1/5 = -10%                 2/5 = -15%                 3/5 = -20%                 4/5 = -25%                 5/5 = -30%

You can see what I'm doing here. Just slightly decrease the gap between hit rate and dodge rate so DW has an easier time landing a hit.

Same Duration, Cooldown will be changed to 15 seconds instead of 12. EP Usage stays the same.

 

image.png

Instead of making this just a Taunt curse, this will have no Curse properties (meaning it doesn't revolve around Success rate and Resistance Rate).

A reliable taunt that works 100% of the time instead of missing it against CC bosses 3 times in a row -.- 

 

These are some of the changes I would like to see being buffed in the DW toolkit.

Have Fun,

B4D4SS

 

 

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these are my suggestions i admit i am no expert for DW i never played the class back in retail  this is just my opinion i only seen people play and explain things to me about it

the dark warrior skill tree doesn't have anymore knockdown skills than Dragon strike image.png.1318dcdd6b90d1980f711be02ba280fb.pngwhich you get it at lvl 2 when you hit lvl 53 the more i thought about it the more i see that they should have a knockdown but only for one skill which is Deep strike

image.png.1b12e7808a4a4ee58d83c595287e96fe.png the more i thought about it the more i see i know its for single target only but thats make better

DW has great defense thanks to its skills like talon defense image.png.3abe3f9db2fb8e92eb12ea1b61e9ab9a.png and dragon protections image.png.4a543539f447d67db83c46837c9a3671.png and the skill in the warrior skill tree as well but you must have a great build for it tho   

but i have to come back to this later to i need more knowledge on the class to come back all i see right now with the knowledge i have on it is that i see it need more knockdown skill i know ith have some for the warrior skill tree charge fist , charge masanko and special beam cannon they have knockdown but thats warrior skill tree tho.

 

 

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On 2/19/2019 at 5:00 PM, B4D4SS said:

image.png

A simple increase in Damage and effective range will help this skill go long ways. Change to 10m Radius instead of 8m. 

Later, when % Damage is discussed more closely, we will have a better idea of where this skill should be in terms of damage output.

 

image.png

Adding a KD effect to this skill at level 2 will help DW very well in PvP. That also means this skill's cooldown needs to be increased.

 

image.png

I am heavily against adding a KD effect to this skill because I think giving an AoE move a KD effect generally gives bad results. I am also against giving this skill any sort of CC effect. However, a change to it will be decrease opponent's Dodge Rate.

1/5 = -10%                 2/5 = -15%                 3/5 = -20%                 4/5 = -25%                 5/5 = -30%

You can see what I'm doing here. Just slightly decrease the gap between hit rate and dodge rate so DW has an easier time landing a hit.

Same Duration, Cooldown will be changed to 15 seconds instead of 12. EP Usage stays the same.

 

image.png

Instead of making this just a Taunt curse, this will have no Curse properties (meaning it doesn't revolve around Success rate and Resistance Rate).

A reliable taunt that works 100% of the time instead of missing it against CC bosses 3 times in a row -.- 

 

These are some of the changes I would like to see being buffed in the DW toolkit.

Have Fun,

B4D4SS

 

 


Agreed¬†ūüĎć
All DW physical skills needs drastically increase in damage on every level of skill.

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Whirlwind aoe increased to 10m.

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If Sharp Slice stays single target skill it needs alot of increase in damage, or change Sharp Slice to aoe damage skill (range 35m and aoe 10m around target), like SK Violent Slice but without stun or cc/debuff!

3.jpg.e6cccf9303b08d6f5e301a8f8fec2b5f.jpg
Cyclone increased aoe to 15m with decrease opponent's Dodge Rate just like B4d4ss wrote. This skill dont need any type of cc!

DW must have better taunt skills than SK!

1.jpg.c962ded84618f54ac59052f42595d58a.jpg
Dragon's Will skill removed from SK skill tree and moved to DW skill tree.

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DW Powerful Roar taunt aoe radius increased to 30m (when maxed), and SK Deception skill taunt aoe radius decreased to 18-20m (when maxed).

EP Boost passive renamed to Spiritual Boost and changed icon.
It should give Focus and EP.
1779938836_Beznaslova.jpg.52cc26d7c0975cafccc896559b26b018.jpg

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Dragon's Protection is a AoE Buff that makes you sacrifice 4000 LP to increase 1788 in both defenses (at lv 3), but it only last for 20s. It is a waste of sp to max up the skill. 
It could be reworked to last maybe 5min would work. I think Scrancher said something about this already XD

Not just Dragon Strike, but Charging Fist and Makankosappo (warrior tree) also have KD ability, but it waste so much sp to get those.
Deep Strike should have kd ability at lv 1.

I thought increasing Whirlwind to 12m but 10m is enough for now, yeah. 

Adding a Dodge Rate Decrease could work, but still think adding a Stun effect would be nice too. Because of SK, if they have a stun AoE why not add to the dw either? xD
you suggested values how much it would decrease the opponent's Dodge Rate, but what about the duration? Leave it untouched, 14s in all lv? 
Or edit to fit the values you suggested? 

1/5 = -10%                 2/5 = -15%                 3/5 = -20%                 4/5 = -25%                 5/5 = -30%
Duration: 7s                   8s                                10s                               12s                            14s

What you think? 

I link your suggestion on the taunt, Baddy. But i would say to increase a little from 14m to 18m at 14 targets.

That's also a good suggestion for the Dragon's Pledge, Baddy. 

Disastrous Blow I have used it one time in korean but at that time I didn't understand what effect it had. In TW I mained a Turtle only. In dbog never used that skill, so I might not have a opinion for it xD

20 hours ago, Scrancher said:

Guys, how do you find the two buffs: Draconic Resistance and Draconic Defense? Personally, I find them waste of SP's, and never used them myself, although I tested them many years ago, and wasn't impressed in the slightest. With the whole idea of next-to-none RNG in DBONU here (the idea of which I LOVE), what would work instead of those two? Complete rework, buffs to them, or replacements?
I was thinking, seeing as they are additional active buffs, how about if one of them gave both success rate and resistance rate (but quite a high amount), and the other gave something like 10% LP recovery at max skill level? They are still self-cast buffs, and I think something major needs to be done with them, as they lean towards PvP, but in turn forces you to have overall worse skills to use, due to the many points you can put in both these two buffs. This way, you have another choice, to become even more tanky/defensive, or to scrap those two buffs (as it is), and put points in more offensive skills.

Draconic Resistance and Draconic Defense I used them only in the kr version and wasn't impressed either. I think could be reworked like you said but not a 5 lv buff like it is now. Only upgrade them 2x would be better, so we could save sp points for other skills xD

PS: by the way guys, what about the Dragon's Punishment skill? I think it works fine the way it is but the EP cost is way to high at lv 5.
Maybe could decrease to 800EP at lv 5? I don't know. What you think? xD

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@Dohko, I have a few things to add regarding what has been said.

1. Great idea for Dragon's Protection. 

2. I remain by my standard that Deep Strike should KD at lvl 2 instead of 1. Other than Karma and Plasma, no skill has level 1 KD with short cooldown. Every other KD skill at level 1 is given over 24 seconds of cooldown, Master Fan Out has 30 seconds. As I said, only exception is Karma and Plasma and I'm against them having 8 second cooldown with level 1 KD (should be level 2 in my personal opinion). Not to mention, Plasma and Karma are VERY KD combo heavy, I don't think that should be the case for a Tank class.

3. SK AoE stun is target based, not Radius from Player without cast time. In 5v5, this means you can simply dash into the opponent and twirl with 24m diameter circle (taking a good portion of the place) and stun all targets around YOU. If targets are separated even slightly, landing AoE stun isn't going to be SUPER effective. This isn't the case with a move that YOU (the DW player) can decide where to land it, meaning it becomes very easy to stun multiple targets. It sounds okay in PvE, but it is way too powerful in PvP.

 

Have fun,

B4D4SS

 

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It's great to see so many different takes on various skills and such!¬†ūüĎć

As I see it, it seems that Dohko, kaiboss and myself, is in the department where we all feel that the Dark Warrior needs more CC utilities in their kit, opposed to B4D4SS and Srdjan, who is more towards skills and so, that makes the DW actually able to hit and land the skills. That's the great thing about friendly discussions in general. It's a ping-pong of ideas thrown back and forth, which I like ūüėĄ

Personally, I really don't like the attack speed factor in DBO as a whole. I really hope (and quite honestly expect) that the attack speed stat on items will become completely scrapped, or a hardcap to be set on AS as a stat so low, that it just simply isn't worth to even use it. And yes, skills like the Fighter's Thunder should be able go over this cap, but AS on items shouldn't, and neither should AS buffs from other classes, as well as Kaioken and so on. But that is a topic for a whole other discussion, hehe..

For Disastrous Blow, I really like the idea Dohko has, with an on-duration (activated) ability, that buffs both energy and physical offensive capabilities on a CD. 

I'm not the type to pick apart any and all suggestions that I don't necessarily agree with, and I simply only mean to politely comment on likes and dislikes I have on various suggestions in this thread.
I fully agree that the DW needs better hit rate! I just don't agree on the way to go about this. I do really like your concept of a skill that sacrifices dodge (which is of no importance to the DW anyways) to gain hit rate (which is utter useful and needed), but just not as an activated ability, let alone at such a high SP cost (5/5)
The reason for this, first of all, is that having to spend 5 more points is quite a bit, considering the skill was useless before, and thus not picked in the majority of DW builds. That's 5 extra valuable SP's that is forced to be spent on a skill that do not constantly increases our hit rate, but only periodically does so. I don't see it become a choice either, as hit rate (again) is desperately needed for the DW.
Secondly, having better hit rate (again, which really is a need factor) should be a static buff, opposed to a buff that gives you better hit rate in some instances, and then back to a cooldown, where you don't benefit from it for a while. I see that constant swift from high hit rate on a duration - to low hit rate on a cooldown as RNG, (and correct me if I am wrong), but that's what this project is about to drastically change, amongst other things, correct?
As to not copycat the passive Focus buff off of DBOG, how about the Dragon's Pledge skill simply scrapped as is, and the sacrifice dodge for hit rate as you suggested, replacing the EP Passive buff, but as a static, passive 3/3 skill (as is), where you gain hit rate and lose dodge rate for every 1 skill point used?
This way, you get a nice static hit rate bonus (at the cost of dodge), whilst also replacing the wasteful EP Passive, AND scrapping a useless skill (Dragon's Pledge), which in turn saves us valuable SP's. It's a multi-win situation I think would work, and still hold true to a great concept of a skill that you had!

Taunts (both in the Warrior and DW tree) definitely needs a 100% hit/apply, no matter the weather. It seems we all agree on this one.
I've been suggesting this for years, as it never made sense that a pure PvE skill missed/got resisted that much, especially considering that it can be the difference between life and death in the game¬†ūüėõ

I still very much feel, that the DW needs an AoE CC ability in their kit. No, I wouldn't like for them to basically become an SK, but I never saw SK's as being the Godly OP class people tend to believe it is anyway, but it is sure as a sunny day, that there is a rather big gap between the Shadow Knight and the Dark Warrior, tilting in the favor of the former.
Amongst ways I see this gap could be mended, is for the DW to get an AoE CC ability.
If we look objectively at the DW vs. SK trees overall, the DW has around 8 useful skills (more or less), whereas the SK has around 13 useful ones (yes, it is subjective, and changes according to the purpose of the build, etc). That alone is very unbalanced in my eyes. The kit of the SK is not godly nor overpowered in my opinion, but still superior to that of the DW, and with more useful skills in the SK's arsenal (all pretty much superior to that of the DW), it is no surprise SK's are amongst the most played and mainstream'ed class!

I just got a question. How exactly will the Demon Wave skill be balanced, if you guys can't/won't go about routes that DBOG took? I like to see myself as being a part of the reason that the Demon Wave skill got buffed on DBOG, seeing as myself and others suggested very similar changes to the skill, which ended up being made a reality, and actually making the skill become quite good!
Well, I still personally think it should have burn damage instead of bleed, and become an energy-based skill, and it wouldn't hurt to crank the damage and [burn] DoT up just a tiny nook.

Yeah, I agree on that one, Dohko. It is a tricky one, also having to consider SP's and so, hehe. But, turning them into some great active buffs that would benefit the DW, would be very nice. I always thought that having an LP% recovery buffs for the DW (and SK, I guess), would be cool.


On the comprehensive thread I made, I have thought of this idea for a long time, which I think could be great for the Dragon's Punishment skill, as well as on all AoE and Cone / Line skills in the entire game:

- Across the board, on all of the AoE and Line / Cone skills in the game, the hit rate and success rate should increase the more enemies / mobs you use such skills on, stay the same when used on a certain amount of enemies affected, and decrease when beneath a set minimum amount. Moreover, as to not make purely AoE-based skills become single-target nukers, the actual hit or success rate should lower when used on a group of targets below the skills' specified amount/s, and become pretty much highly likely to miss, when used on just a single player, mob or boss target. Now, there should be some exceptions, such as:
(Tweaked it a bit) - Dragon's Punishment (at lvl 5/5 ‚Äď buff) - Utilize the Claws: Physical Impact Damage: 350%. LP Leech Amount: 800%. Cooldown: 45 Sec. EP Cost: 1000. Affecting a maximum of 10 enemies ‚ÄstIn the DW's arsenal, this skill should be the only one¬†NOT¬†affected by the AoE¬†& Cone / Line system; but instead should increase¬†the hit chance and amount healed percentage the lower amount of enemies it is used on, thus increasing its usefulness in PvP¬†and single target / player/ boss PvE¬†and PvP combat.

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27 minutes ago, Scrancher said:

I just got a question. How exactly will the Demon Wave skill be balanced, if you guys can't/won't go about routes that DBOG took? I like to see myself as being a part of the reason that the Demon Wave skill got buffed on DBOG, seeing as myself and others suggested very similar changes to the skill, which ended up being made a reality, and actually making the skill become quite good!
Well, I still personally think it should have burn damage instead of bleed, and become an energy-based skill, and it wouldn't hurt to crank the damage and [burn] DoT up just a tiny nook.

I also think Demon Wave should remain energy based and have burn damage but it also should require claws equipped like dbog did. But if think this is copying, should be gloves instead.

 

34 minutes ago, Scrancher said:

For Disastrous Blow, I really like the idea Dohko has, with an on-duration (activated) ability, that buffs both energy and physical offensive capabilities on a CD. 

It was B4D4SS that suggest about Disastrous Blow xD

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Definitely agreed! I mean, this wouldn't be copying DBOG or anything, when it's basically just buffing and adjusting the retail (KR) version of Demon Wave, right? ūüėĄ

Right, hehe. But I mean, it was your idea with an activated ability that temporarily gives you higher energy and physical attack points, and I think that would be a great buff skill for the DW! All I meant is just, that I don't personally like the Disastrous Blow ability, nor the change that B4D4SS suggested (due to personal hate of attack speed), but your idea about an offensive buff would be a great candidate to replace either Disastrous Blow or Dragon's Pledge, in my opinion.

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If game remains similar in aspects of attack speed (which I doubt it will since I'm strongly against it and I know most of the team is), the changes I put into Disastrous Blow should be effective. It is simply a spin on KR version. Not to mention, reducing attack speed of Bosses can be very effective in Dungeons (that's why Speed Shackle is relevant)

 

Also, it's kind of unfair to assume that I'm against giving DW some sort of better CC. That isn't true. I support the idea, but I simply think that none of the skills suggested are a good idea for several broken pvp reasons. You are looking at it in a narrow point of view in PvE and 1v1, I'm talking about all aspects of PvP, many of which rely on multiple players. 

Giving CC to a skill with large radius, medium cooldown, NO needed targets, and NO cast time is quite insane. DW will simply bust into the field and completely shut down entire groups with simple skills. 

If you want AoE CC, we need to significantly change one of DW skills to fit that mold... You can't simply Cyclone should get CC effect, especially after suggesting increasing it's radius to 15meters... That's wrong in multiple ways, most of which I explained.

 

 

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I obviously don't have any insight knowledge nor info on this project, as I am not a part of the team or anything whatsoever, but based on the fact that attack speed was a major, if not the sole reason that many classes got left out in PvE especially, but also ending up becoming too broken in PvP; and thus all aspects of the game got pretty much ruled by attack speed parties, of which only a select few classes could really shine at, and therefore only the same few classes got chosen for stuff most of the time. This happened in all versions of the game, as I'm sure you know -- KR, TW, HK and DBOG.
To change, scrap or leave the attack speed aspect of the game to however you guys in the team see fit, is entirely up to all of you in the team, of course. I'm simply hoping, that it will be either scrapped or nerfed so hard, that it isn't really the go-to choice no more, but still could useful in some situations. With that wishful thinking, I still like the idea Dohko had, for a buff that boosts the DW's offensive capabilities over a duration.

It wasn't my intention to do anything but assume that you was/are against it, as you wrote¬†yourself (assume). Based on your disagreement posts, I interpreted it as, that you were against the whole idea of DW's to get better CC at all, which would be totally fine, because that is the whole idea of discussions in any shape and form ūüėČ
I must admit, that I did not think about 5v5 PvP too much with my AoE CC idea, and yeah, indeed all aspects of the game should be considered of course, although that is quite hard to pull off with most skills, seeing as there is a truly useful situation for most skills, and situations where they aren't that needed, which adds to the balancing factor.
But, be that narrow-sighted as it may have come across as being, to me, your main reasons for disagreement was, that it would break 5v5 PvP alone. Isn't that also narrow-sighted? ūüėČ
Anyway, I did not post the suggestion with no cast time added. I also did not suggest it with a cast time added, so that is sort of an unfair assumption on your part here, hehe.
Giving it a rather long cast time (like that of the Special Beam Cannon), and it would obviously need the RP ball to utilize the KD effect anyway, and then otherwise work as Cyclone does now, where the AoE is based around your character, would in my view, make it a viable PvE and PvP skill, but not make it overpowered, as it could still be countered, or the opposing player/s would be able to simply dash away from it, if not otherwise incapacitated.
Bear in mind, while I fully agree that both Whirlwind and Cyclone should both have their AoE range increased, I never once suggested any ideas of how big of an AoE area that should be, so the suggestions of 15M you mentioned, was not mine ūüėČ

Guys, can you clarify something for me? I have this vivid memory, that back in the old KR days, that the Hellzone Grenade skill was undodgeable. Is that a wishful memory illusion that I have, or was that how the skill was? I remember that I always thought of it as a sure-way to kill humans, hehe. I honestly forgot if it ever was / or still is a hit/miss or success/resist skill. But that is something I think would be cool, to have that skill be (or stay) an undodgeable skill.

How do you all find the passive Soul buff? Anything you would change, or so? A simple buff, rework or complete overhaul of the skill?

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Increasing Cyclone's range to 15m was Srdjan's suggestion.

36 minutes ago, Scrancher said:

Guys, can you clarify something for me? I have this vivid memory, that back in the old KR days, that the Hellzone Grenade skill was undodgeable. Is that a wishful memory illusion that I have, or was that how the skill was? I remember that I always thought of it as a sure-way to kill humans, hehe. I honestly forgot if it ever was / or still is a hit/miss or success/resist skill. But that is something I think would be cool, to have that skill be (or stay) an undodgeable skill.

I also remember HellZone Grenade was undodgeable. Today the skill has a chance to miss (at least in dbog, don't remember how it was in retail tw)
 

38 minutes ago, Scrancher said:

How do you all find the passive Soul buff? Anything you would change, or so? A simple buff, rework or complete overhaul of the skill?

It could be as we suggested, to give strength and soul. They would give same amount as it is today to both of them.
lv 1 - 12 / lv 2 - 20 / lv 3 - 34

______________________________

I was reading some dbog posts and found this spiritual build, when i saw, it felt wrong, idk xD
What you guys think? xD
https://tools.dboglobal.to/?tool=Skill-Calculator&class=Dark-Warrior&build=050150014012000140000050000000015310330100305003030

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@Scrancher I'm no longer sure if you're disagreeing because you have concrete points or simply just to disagree.

Personally, this will be my last reply to this thread until another side of DW balance is presented.

1- Obviously, attack speed is an issue that would need some control, but I still believe it is pretty important to have anti-speed on Dungeon Bosses (Since, as you said, this class needs to be very strong in PvE).

2- As Dohko said, it wasn't my suggestion to increase Cyclone's range to 15m, so you can't claim that it was my suggestion and then send me a celebratory wink. I was simply putting together the compilation of suggestions you guys put together.

3- What I clearly said in my first post was this: "I am heavily against adding a KD effect to this skill because I think giving an AoE move a KD effect generally gives bad results. I am also against giving this skill any sort of CC effect." As per the highlighted "this", I simply mean that giving CYCLONE CC or any sort of effect similar is an awful idea. Giving other skills CC should be discussed separately, as there is a lot of unmitigated effects.  Let me explain why even further than I did last post, since you decided to disagree again. Let me give you a visual interpretation of what "NO TARGETS" looks like. 

In this example, I'll be using Violent Slice (which is admittedly quite a strong skill) and Cyclone. They are both AoE attacks, however, Cyclone is independent of targets.

First, this is a visual of what a violent slice to 4 randomly placed enemies slightly far from each other.

 image.png 

On the most well placed target, Violent Slice takes a MAXIMUM of 2 of those Enemies. Slight displacement within this group would easily change that to a 1.

Now, let's look at a visual of cyclone used on the same randomly placed enemies. 

image.png 

This is setup so that the circles match the 12m range of Cyclone and the 15m range of Violent Slice.

A Skill that doesn't target is one that can be placed anywhere, which means it can be VERY HEAVILY taken advantage of.

4- You returned my words back to me and called me narrow-sighted, although you didn't read, which only further proves how narrow-sighted you are. What I said was simple: "You are looking at it in a narrow point of view in PvE and 1v1, I'm talking about all aspects of PvP, many of which rely on multiple players. " Now, that includes 5v5, but it also includes a good variety of other aspects, like Scramble, Dojo, Preliminary Budokai rounds, etc. I only used 5v5 since it was an easy example to understand.

5- Yes, "all aspects of the game should be considered", meaning that even if it breaks 1 game mode, it is technically over powered and will be abused.

6- Not suggesting a change to a part means that you want to leave that part UNCHANGED, that's called Logic and Reasoning. You not suggesting there be a Cast Time means that it didn't even occur to you that it needs Cast Time, which automatically excludes you from knowing how to balance skills.

7- Regarding your 2 questions:

- Yes, Hellzone was not a skill that could be dodged. 

- I think the Soul Passive is OKAY where it is, though I personally would take both SK and DW towards a more Physical Based skill approach, so I would replace those values with STR values instead. 

 

 

 

@Dohko, that build is pretty weird. They tried to factor in PvP aspects by running 5/5 Hellzone, but they chose not to add any other very important PvP skills, like Confusion and Dragon Strike. It is also a poor PvE build because Dragon's Punishment and 1/4 Demon Wave after that buff are very ridiculous choices.

 

 

 

Anyways, I hope this was informative. I don't want any sort of flaming, nor do I want clever remarks without proper, educated, information.

Have Fun,

B4D4SS 

 

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Hi @B4D4SS.


I'm sad to see¬†that you seem to take this whole discussion as a battle between me and you; my ideas and yours. It's not, at least not on my end¬†anyway ūüėȬ†<- By the way, the usage of any smiley/s that I do, are simply that: smileys. Any deeper meaning of them, such as celebratory indications¬†or so, are non-existent. There always is a sender and a receiver in any conversation.
I'm a very friendly, positive, humble and democratic person, so if you thoroughly and objectively read through all that I have written so far, I am sure that you also will see it that way.

I was unsure whether or not to go through all of your points one by one, or simply comment in one phrase. I decided for the latter, seeing as you tend to twist the things I am writing, and generally come across as not being able to take constructive critique and disagreements.
I will say, however, that some of your ideas and things that you wrote, I agree with, and some I don't. The same goes the other way around, and indeed, in all conversations that you, myself or others are a part of. That is the whole idea and point of a¬†discussion, as I have written multiple times now. I will refrain from linking the official meaning of the word, as I know it will come out as being provocative, of which I never intend with anything I write or say, ever. You know the meaning of the word, I am sure ūüėČ
The only point I will directly address is #6. That's quite rude and uncalled for. You also have deeply flawed reasonings for certain suggestions of yours, but I wouldn't ever delve down to such a low niveau myself, to insult or disclaim your ability to even balance skills, like you did there. That is the whole point of suggestions being slung out there for debate, but anyway, old water under the bridge now.

The last thing on this whole misunderstanding part I will say is, that I will strongly advise for you to change your attitude, especially considering that you are also a moderator, of whose roles -- amongst other things I'm sure -- is to provide a generally stable, friendly and helpful environment in the community, as well as oversee that the forum users follow the rules. This is meant as nothing but a friendly advice from someone with more (and years longer) life experience than yourself. Many of the things that you have written thus far -- not only here, but in other threads as well -- are quite belittling, insulting and provocative, and would fall under the category of being flaming, as you yourself asked people to refrain from.

Now, if I, others or yourself, naturally, wants to post anything, then by all means, I / you / we are free to do so. I have every right to post my own suggestions and comment on others' as well, whether I agree or disagree with them. That is a right we all have, and I intend to make use of that when I see fit.

EDIT: Just learned today that you've been talking behind my back on Discord, which I find quite disrespectful. It's not very polite nor MOD'ish either. But that is a conversation for a private matter. You can PM if you want to talk about this, as I am very open to an apology, and won't hold any grudges.

This has gone off-topic enough, which isn't the intention of this thread at all, seeing as this is a discussions thread about the Dark Warrior and balancing that class after all, and nothing else.

__________________________This is the line in the sand that I think shall be drawn now, and if you can't agree to that, then I simply think we shall agree to disagree, and move on¬†ūüėČ


Great to hear the answer from both of you, regarding Hellzone from back in KR DBO! That would be absolutely fantastic, to have that hidden property added back on the skill here on dborev_universe. I also see it as making a lot of sense, based on the usage and effect it has in the Anime show.

I agree about the build. It just doesn't seem right to me either. Personally, I wouldn't put more than the required 1 skill in either of the two taunts (to reach the better skills). I would definitely max out Dragon's Punishment and Demon Wave too, especially considering that Demon Wave is a great skill on DBOG now!
But it still depends on what the main aspect of the game this build is aimed at. I see it as being¬†sort of a failed attempt at a build that would work in every single aspect of the game ūüėČ



Edited by Scrancher
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Great, i'm not the only one that got uncomfortable with that build xD 

Making DW and SK all physical based, would be interesting.
Also, dw spiritual energy skills would turn physical? If so, Demon Wave should remain with his burn damage and with claws or gloves add damage.

image.png  I agree changing soul to Strength on buff. The Soul buff is called "Great Defense" It doesn't make sense that name xD I think it should be renamed to something like "Strength Bonus" i don't know xD

 

Taking your idea about DW and SK being physical based, that would make Dende and Poko being energy, right? 
I think this rule should work for the other classes too. For example, Fighter/Sword being physical, Turtle/Crane Energy, and so on. It would be a good idea? What you guys think? xD

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You guys can not limit race/classes to 1 type of attack, it is like you are saying that SM should only be physical and fighter too.

As DBO is based on DBZ anime, more or less, all attacks they used there are physical and energy ones, all characters in anime are build like that.

Still, they can be balanced in way to fill their roles if you know what roles class should play.

 

Dark Warrior ( Type of tanker that loves more targets around the boss or in PVP party)

This is how it is builded, to keep attacking boss and super mobs around, taunt them all and leech life from them and stay alive.

In order to do soo, he needs: 
1. Focus passive in order to hit instead of EP one
2. Dragon punishment should have 30 CD , fixed heal 5k-6k per target and stun for 3-5 sec and be physical based and should cost 600 EP

3. Powerful roar taunt should have 20 m range and gives 2 RP balls

4. Dragon's Pledge when HP is below 10%, instant heal 10k HP

5. Demon Wave should be energy based and if someone is up for burn dmg back then it needs to be fixed, if it be bleed DOT dmg then can remain in percent and still have cast time or longer animation as bold strike, just soo in PVP he can be interrupted

 

What would this change to DW?

It would be way better in PVP and PVE.

PVE Aspect
He would hit better, since his Dragon Punishment healing skill will match healing of SK in every way from CD, healing and EP cost, he would have better chance to tank bosses and super mobs and it would be able to recover LP from them, keep super mobs stunned and focus more on Boss. Since Dragon punishment is based on success rate, even if some mobs resist it, he will still recover LP and stun them. With powerful roar 20 m range is enough for DW since DW aggro mobs with energy siege and keep them around him with taunt if needed and 2 RP balls extra will help to keep CD of dragon punishment even lower and stay more alive as possible. Dragon's Pledge is there just in case dende dies and boss is already half dead, self cast this buff when you are at low LP to get more LP and with dragon punishment even more.

 

PVP Aspect

He would have missing CC that he needed for nice PVP aka AOE stun for group PVP and it would help a lot in single PVP. With help of RP balls he would get from taunt, he would be able to even use single target KD or increase duration of confusion or stuns or dmg instead. Dragon's Pledge would be really good help to him, and unlike SK who needs to spend tons on gear and pray to block critic hits thx to anti critic, DW thx to his skills, buffs, does not need to care about critics and focus on enemy to keep him under his control as long he can.

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